I recently went to fill my water softener brine tank with salt, to discover that the brine tank was 1/2 full with water. I don't know exactly how much it usually has, but I don't think it is anywhere near this much. From the direct reading material I found, it sounds like there should only be a few inches.
I have manually forced a regeneration cycle (multiple times with the same results), and the softener does draw out of the brine tank, to having as few as 2 inches or so in the bottom (so I know the line isn't plugged or cracked). Then it fills back up to 1/2 full, shutting off as it causes the float in the smaller tube to trigger the shut off. I'm assuming at this point, it is supposed to draw out of the brine tank and fill back up the main cylinder?? Some things I've read talk about a gasket, but since it pulls out of the tank during regeneration, I can't imagine the gasket is bad.
It is an older model, probably manufactured between 1990 and 1995. The name on it is Aquarius by Wood Brothers Ind., from Lincoln Nebraska (I'm in Omaha Ne).
Something that may be of importance - When we moved in the two valves on the in and out lines were free, but the center valve that forces the water to flow through the softener was stuck (at least partially open). I was bored one day a few weeks before this problem started and decided to free this value. All I had to do was loosen up the packing nut (for lack of the correct term) and it freed up with a little elbow grease. It might not have been fully open prior to me freeing it. I doubt this is related, but figured I better mention it.
Anyone have any ideas on what might be wrong? I know it's getting a little old, so if it's time for replacement, I'll deal with that, but if I can get a few more years out of it, all the better.
While I'm here, I also don't think this is related, but my water heater just started leaking out of the top of it. I noticed this the same day as the 1/2 full brine tank. I replaced it about 2 years ago. It doesn't leak much, but can have a very small trail. It is like it overheated, causing the 4 connections out of the top to seep their seals out and leak slightly (in, out, overflow and one other plugged connection). Could the excess salt due to so much water have caused this? I see white deposits on top of the water heater around the seals. I've read that the water only becomes so saturated.
If I do have to replace the softener, can someone make a brand recommendation? I've seen posts indicating I can get commercial quality at the price of like Kenmore, but I didn't happen to notice any brand names. I saw a Fleck brand @ http://www.qualitywatertreatment.com/?OVRAW=Water%20SoftenerOVKEY=water%20softenerOVMTC=standard.
Here are some pics of my softener with the problem and the setup of it:
http://members.cox.net/chvyfn/IM001396.JPG
http://members.cox.net/chvyfn/IM001397.JPG
http://members.cox.net/chvyfn/IM001398.JPG
http://members.cox.net/chvyfn/IM001399.JPG
http://members.cox.net/chvyfn/IM001400.JPG
http://members.cox.net/chvyfn/IM001401.JPG
http://members.cox.net/chvyfn/IM001402.JPG
http://members.cox.net/chvyfn/IM001396.JPG
Chevyfan,
Great post with lots of detail and the pics are a big help.
Usually too much water in the brine tank is caused by the control valve NOT sucking all the brine out for regeneration. Your observation that the brine is being sucked out tells me that the problem is elsewhere.
The control valve could be failing and overfilling the brine tank with the only control being the safety float. Since 1 gallon of water dissolves 3 lbs of NaCl if we knew the specs on your softener and your water conditions we could do the math and tell you how much water should be in your brine tank.
Be sure that those valves (bypass) that were stuck are set properly to flow your water through the softener. If you have them all open the you are getting hard water and that explains the white stuff on the water heater. I don't believe the white stuff is salt but rather calcium (hardness). Whatever, the water heater leaks need to be fixed and it would be a good idea to check your water pressure. If you're on a water system and your house has a PRV (pressure reducing valve) you may be seeing pressure spikes from thermal expansion.
See this...
http://wattsreg.com/pro/divisions/watersafety_flowcontrol/learnabout/learnabout_thermexpansion.asp?catId=64#generalinfo
(you have to copy paste as HTML is turned off on this forum)
That said, your pics show an older timer design cointrol valve which is not very efficent with either water or salt. Perhaps a modern design demand initiated microprocessor control valve on a new softener is a wise choice.
You might want to call around and get at least a couple local water treatment pros to come in and give you a free water analysis and quote for a place to start. Ask your neighbors if they have any water treatment experience. They might tell you who's good or who to avoid.
If you are a DIYer here's a good place to shop...
http://ohiopurewaterco.com/shop/customer/home.php?cat=179
(you have to copy paste as HTML is turned off on this forum)
Industry standard and proven components, FREE shipping and GREAT prices.
You'll have to correctly size your softener for the SFR of your plumbing, number of people, and water conditions. If you don't know how, get help. Buying too small a softener is a common mistake and a waste of money.
Appreciate the feedback. I'll take a look at your recommendations and probably get a couple of quotes from professionals, at least to start with.
Thanks again!
nice pics...the valve you have, is aFleck 2700 series (2700 time clock or maybe an older 2750). virtually bullet proof...how many years have you gotten service from this valve before IT needed service? 5-7 years?
Do you have a service/owners manual for this softener ? if not one can be squished and e-mailed. Possible causes are as follows:
Clogged or restricted drain line, or drain line flow control
Debris caught in the brine valve pick up/J-tube (inside the brine tank)
Injector could be clogged with grime from the salt, iron from the water ????
Debris in the Brine flow controler (small brass valve with a plunger, left side)
Of course you will need a manual or exploded view digram to follow along...
Thanks for the post WaterGuyTampa! Can't thank you enough!
I've been in the house for 7 years with no servicing of the unit, and the house was built 10 years prior, although I don't know if the unit was installed then or later. I can say it had been at least a couple of years since it was installed when I bought the house, so at least 10 years of use.
Knowing this was a Fleck helped greatly in finding doc on it! From the pics I've seen, your 2700 or 2750 look in line with what my softener is. Maybe a 2500 Economizer (need to dig a little deeper).
Since my original post I hadn't done much with it other than close all the valves and run standard water (big difference!). I just funished up my degree this month and really didn't have much time to spend on it, so you post came at a great time. Using the information you provided, I was able to tear it down and clean stuff up.
It no longer fills up half way (not sure what it was - didn't find any junk in the injector or anywhere else, although the brine flow control valve was very stiff and slow to return to what I assume was a closed position). It now fills up about 4 - 5 inches or so, and drops down to 2 inches or so during the regeneration cycles. A lot more similar to what I seem to recall prior to my issues.
But - the piston rod had some green coating on it that had worn off over time and caused some leakage. I unfortunately caused a little more damage and now it leaks more. I've found parts for it on the net.
Now I need a recommendation. Since this guy is over 10 years old, do I spend the $50 or so (rough estimate) and do a simple rebuild, or do I just write it off and get a new one ($400 - $500)?
I was thinking I would replace the piston rod, end plug assembly (if the o-rings are installed - that internal one looks difficult to replace!), seals spacers and some of the o-rings. This is my $50 estimate. I also realize I should probably replace the resins since the unit is as old as it is. But that's another $100, and with a total investment of $150, and the time to do all this, I'm thinking I'm better off just getting a new unit. I don't imagine it will take me much more time to replace than the teardown and resin replacement time. Plus it'll last much longer.
Suggestions?
If you do think I can get away with the rebuild, would you recommend any other parts replaced? The green coating on the piston and brine flow control both looked in good shape.
Thanks to anyone for respones!
OK, I finally broke down and bought and installed the parts necessary to stop the leaks. It no longer softens the water though. The system runs through a full 4 stage cycle, including drawing from the brine tank, filling the brine tank, etc.
When I pulled the piston out, the first seal and spacer came out. I was able to get them back in. From what I've read of the Fleck's, I can rent or purchase a seal installer, but I'm thinking it can't be that hard to install a new set of seals and spacers, even if I have to make a tool out of a large dowl pin.
Does anyone have experience with this, and is it something I could do, even without the right tools?
Do you think this could solve my problem, or does anyone have other suggestions?
Hey Chevyfan,
I'm in the same boat you were in...same softener, tank and problem.
Did you get yours running, and how did you do it?
Thanks,
DC
I was able to get it working. I ended up buying just the pin/rod and some other piece (plastic type of if I recall correctly, but the company also offered a kit (included the piston) for about the same price that I would have bought had I known about it.
I did not end up redoing all the seals. I didn't think it was working after I put it back together, but I think it took a couple of days to get the salt-effect built back up. It works now. A couple of days after we were sure it was working again, I actually shut it off one night and the next morning the girlfriend was compaining it was broke again. Took a day or two to get back to full strength again one I turned it on.
The parts really aren't that hard to replace with just a little mechanical knowledge, but be very careful not to scratch the coating off the new rod, else you'll be buying a new one again because it will leak. Take the pin out while still connected to the aluminum face - that should keep you from scarring it up.
If your question was on the cycles and not seeming to be working, I cleaned out the valves in the tank (has a float connected to it), the value that releases the purged water to the floor drain and the filter. I still can't seem to say it felt like it worked right away - it seemed like it had to build up a bit.
Reply again if you want more info, but describe your exact issue - I had several thoughtout my ordeal and I'm making some assumptions on what part you focused on.
Where to begin! Better stick to the softener...
I bought my softener reconditioned which means used but with new pellets. It has run well for 2 years.
From the first day I installed it the brine tank was 1/2 full. I just assumed this was normal but am understanding that it should only have 2 inches of water in the tank between recharges. Has yours gone back to being half full?
The softener had worked fine (same Fleck model as yours) but recently I noticed that it is no longer softening the water, and confirmed that the salt is not going away. When forced to recharge, it acts as if it is working, but no brine gets drawn in.
I'm going to:
--drain the tank
--empty the salt
--remove the float/jet/etc assembly from the brine tank, clean and replace
--check for kinks in the hoses
--clean the injector
Any other advice?
Thanks!
DC
http://internetwatersupplies.com/downloads/2750df.pdf
Hopefully this is close enough to your model that you can relate.
Take a look at the manual and read it. It provides some great info on how and what
happens during each phase of the cycle (pages 4 and 5).
Does it cycle through each phase as documented, purging and reloading the water as described?
Page 26 has some recommendations on what the issue may be related to too much water in bryne tank:
7. Excessive water in brine tank.
Issue
A. Plugged drain line flow control.
B. Plugged injector system.
C. Timer not cycling.
D. Foreign material in brine valve.
E. Foreign material in brine line flow control.
Remedy
A. Clean flow control.
B. Clean injector and screen.
C. Replace timer.
D. Replace brine valve seat and clean valve.
E. Clean brine line flow control.
Honestly, I did so much that I'm not sure what ended up getting me back to just a few inches
of water.
Clean the injector (part 12ish and those related) on the control valve parts list (p 8 9)
Clean the valve that the float line connects to (mine is a little different than this manual)
Page 10 - clean the valve (part 16). The diagram is hard to relate to, but this is the valve
on the left of the aluminum plate are you are looking right at the softner (behind the black
cover that screws on).
Post back with your results.
Looking at this, I purchased both the pin and the end plug assembly.
Good luck, be patient.
The brine draw is performed by the venturi throat and nozzle. If either is clogged or broken, it will not draw. If the drain line is clogged, it will not draw brine. Does it try to draw or spits water out? The u shaped tube connects to the venturi housing. Simply remove the clover shaped plate and you can see the venturi.
Tags: water, softener, brine, tank, full, brine tank, http members, http members chvyfn, members chvyfn, flow control, control valve, drain line, line flow
